Способности человека к ориентированию

Аўтар
Цитата сообщения от вв отправленного 1 Сен, 2010 в 17:28
Цитата сообщения от kciroohs отправленного 30 Авг, 2010 в 20:04

"Можно 1000км проехать на велосипеде и остаться горожанином, а стоит проехать 30км на каноэ - и ты уже дитя природы" (c) источник неизвестен, вероятно перевод

Холивар велосипед vs. canoe будет прямо в этой ветке? ;D

Хочется добавить ссылко "дети природы и встроенный компас"
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.html
рекомендую кликнуть Print

Кликнул - подумал, ошибочную ссылку дал.
Пошел рыться на NYtimes (нашел много интересного, в том числе http://travel.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/travel/01Biking.html)
Но ссылка оказалась правилная, я имел в виду конкретно вот этот фрагмент


We find it useful to use geographic directions when hiking in the open countryside, for example, but the egocentric coordinates completely dominate our speech when we describe small-scale spaces. We don’t say: “When you get out of the elevator, walk south, and then take the second door to the east.” The reason the egocentric system is so dominant in our language is that it feels so much easier and more natural. After all, we always know where “behind” or “in front of” us is. We don’t need a map or a compass to work it out, we just feel it, because the egocentric coordinates are based directly on our own bodies and our immediate visual fields.

But then a remote Australian aboriginal tongue, Guugu Yimithirr, from north Queensland, turned up, and with it came the astounding realization that not all languages conform to what we have always taken as simply “natural.” In fact, Guugu Yimithirr doesn’t make any use of egocentric coordinates at all. The anthropologist John Haviland and later the linguist Stephen Levinson have shown that Guugu Yimithirr does not use words like “left” or “right,” “in front of” or “behind,” to describe the position of objects. Whenever we would use the egocentric system, the Guugu Yimithirr rely on cardinal directions. If they want you to move over on the car seat to make room, they’ll say “move a bit to the east.” To tell you where exactly they left something in your house, they’ll say, “I left it on the southern edge of the western table.” Or they would warn you to “look out for that big ant just north of your foot.” Even when shown a film on television, they gave descriptions of it based on the orientation of the screen. If the television was facing north, and a man on the screen was approaching, they said that he was “coming northward.”

When these peculiarities of Guugu Yimithirr were uncovered, they inspired a large-scale research project into the language of space. And as it happens, Guugu Yimithirr is not a freak occurrence; languages that rely primarily on geographical coordinates are scattered around the world, from Polynesia to Mexico, from Namibia to Bali. For us, it might seem the height of absurdity for a dance teacher to say, “Now raise your north hand and move your south leg eastward.” But the joke would be lost on some: the Canadian-American musicologist Colin McPhee, who spent several years on Bali in the 1930s, recalls a young boy who showed great talent for dancing. As there was no instructor in the child’s village, McPhee arranged for him to stay with a teacher in a different village. But when he came to check on the boy’s progress after a few days, he found the boy dejected and the teacher exasperated. It was impossible to teach the boy anything, because he simply did not understand any of the instructions. When told to take “three steps east” or “bend southwest,” he didn’t know what to do. The boy would not have had the least trouble with these directions in his own village, but because the landscape in the new village was entirely unfamiliar, he became disoriented and confused. Why didn’t the teacher use different instructions? He would probably have replied that saying “take three steps forward” or “bend backward” would be the height of absurdity.

So different languages certainly make us speak about space in very different ways. But does this necessarily mean that we have to think about space differently? By now red lights should be flashing, because even if a language doesn’t have a word for “behind,” this doesn’t necessarily mean that its speakers wouldn’t be able to understand this concept. Instead, we should look for the possible consequences of what geographic languages oblige their speakers to convey. In particular, we should be on the lookout for what habits of mind might develop because of the necessity of specifying geographic directions all the time.

In order to speak a language like Guugu Yimithirr, you need to know where the cardinal directions are at each and every moment of your waking life. You need to have a compass in your mind that operates all the time, day and night, without lunch breaks or weekends off, since otherwise you would not be able to impart the most basic information or understand what people around you are saying. Indeed, speakers of geographic languages seem to have an almost-superhuman sense of orientation. Regardless of visibility conditions, regardless of whether they are in thick forest or on an open plain, whether outside or indoors or even in caves, whether stationary or moving, they have a spot-on sense of direction. They don’t look at the sun and pause for a moment of calculation before they say, “There’s an ant just north of your foot.” They simply feel where north, south, west and east are, just as people with perfect pitch feel what each note is without having to calculate intervals. There is a wealth of stories about what to us may seem like incredible feats of orientation but for speakers of geographic languages are just a matter of course. One report relates how a speaker of Tzeltal from southern Mexico was blindfolded and spun around more than 20 times in a darkened house. Still blindfolded and dizzy, he pointed without hesitation at the geographic directions.

How does this work? The convention of communicating with geographic coordinates compels speakers from the youngest age to pay attention to the clues from the physical environment (the position of the sun, wind and so on) every second of their lives, and to develop an accurate memory of their own changing orientations at any given moment. So everyday communication in a geographic language provides the most intense imaginable drilling in geographic orientation (it has been estimated that as much as 1 word in 10 in a normal Guugu Yimithirr conversation is “north,” “south,” “west” or “east,” often accompanied by precise hand gestures). This habit of constant awareness to the geographic direction is inculcated almost from infancy: studies have shown that children in such societies start using geographic directions as early as age 2 and fully master the system by 7 or 8. With such an early and intense drilling, the habit soon becomes second nature, effortless and unconscious. When Guugu Yimithirr speakers were asked how they knew where north is, they couldn’t explain it any more than you can explain how you know where “behind” is.

But there is more to the effects of a geographic language, for the sense of orientation has to extend further in time than the immediate present. If you speak a Guugu Yimithirr-style language, your memories of anything that you might ever want to report will have to be stored with cardinal directions as part of the picture. One Guugu Yimithirr speaker was filmed telling his friends the story of how in his youth, he capsized in shark-infested waters. He and an older person were caught in a storm, and their boat tipped over. They both jumped into the water and managed to swim nearly three miles to the shore, only to discover that the missionary for whom they worked was far more concerned at the loss of the boat than relieved at their miraculous escape. Apart from the dramatic content, the remarkable thing about the story was that it was remembered throughout in cardinal directions: the speaker jumped into the water on the western side of the boat, his companion to the east of the boat, they saw a giant shark swimming north and so on. Perhaps the cardinal directions were just made up for the occasion? Well, quite by chance, the same person was filmed some years later telling the same story. The cardinal directions matched exactly in the two tellings. Even more remarkable were the spontaneous hand gestures that accompanied the story. For instance, the direction in which the boat rolled over was gestured in the correct geographic orientation, regardless of the direction the speaker was facing in the two films.

тоже занятно
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A03E4DC1739F937A15754C0A9669D8B63


OP-ART; Navigating the Urban Jungle
By TRISTAN GOOLEY and ROSS MacDONALD

SUMMER is the time for travel, adventure -- and getting lost. Losing your way in the wilderness is one thing. Even without a compass, experienced hikers can figure out where they are by following nature's signs indicating north, south, east or west -- the direction of the wind, for example, or tell-tale marks on rocks and trees that show prevailing wind patterns. But people get lost in strange cities, too. And while this is rarely as dangerous as it is in the wilderness, it can still be an inconvenience. Fortunately, the same skills that have allowed adventurers to find their way into and out of the woods for centuries can also help a wayward traveler tame an unfamiliar town. The ancient art of natural navigation is the opposite of using GPS: it is slow and imprecise. But it can also be hugely enjoyable.

Prevailing Winds
The wind can blow from any direction on any given day, but over a year there are prevailing patterns -- and if you know what they are in a particular city, you can easily determine directions. In New York, for example, wind blows primarily from the southwest. These patterns stamp themselves on buildings, staining and eroding one side more than the others, especially on stonework above the first floor. Trees that are exposed to the wind will show a combing pattern in their uppermost branches. In New York, the most exposed branches will appear gently combed over from southwest to northeast.

Holy Signs
Many prominent religions have geographic centers -- Mecca, Jerusalem -- and their places of worship often reflect this in a way that a city navigator can use. Churches are usually aligned west to east, with the altar at the eastern end. The Torah ark inside a synagogue also tends to be at the eastern end, at least in the United States. Mosques have a niche in a wall showing the direction of Mecca(though the shortest route to Mecca is sometimes counterintuitive because the earth is a sphere -- northeast from New York and northwest from Honolulu, but consistent across a given city).

Compasses in the Sky
The sun and the moon, two of the best natural navigation signposts, will work whether you are in the middle of nowhere or in the center of a city. In northern latitudes, the sun is due south at noon, when it is highest in the sky. A full moon is also due south when it is highest in the sky, close to midnight, while an imaginary line that joins the two horns of a crescent moon and extends down to the horizon will point roughly south. Keep in mind, though, that the direction of sunrise and sunset changes with the seasons -- north of the east/west line in summer, south of it in winter.

Satellite Navigation
TV satellite dishes point toward geostationary satellites, which remain over the same point on the earth's surface, typically the equator. Roughly speaking, those in the Northern Hemisphere point south. Keep in mind that this will vary slightly for different cities, depending on their location and the location of the satellites serving them. Keen-eyed trekkers may notice that in areas dominated by a particular ethnicity the dishes point to a different satellite from the rest of the city, one that carries programming in a foreign tongue.

People-Watching
In the wild, natural navigation relies heavily on observing animal behavior; Pacific Islanders have long used birds as a clue to the proximity of land. In a city, the best animal to use is the human being, which also has some revealing habits. Follow the herd in the late afternoon or go against the flow in the early morning, and you will likely find a train station or bus station.

Head in the Clouds
It's always worth glancing up to check which way the clouds are moving. They will probably hold this line for several hours, and if you are deprived of other clues as you head across town, they can bring you back on course. The clouds can also help you work out where the sun is when it is hidden behind tall buildings -- the bright-rimmed edges of clouds act like curved mirrors, reflecting the sun's light if it's out of sight.

24opartimg-custom1_resize.jpg

Интересные статьи.
Первая "Ваш язык формирует, как вы мыслите?"
Краткое содержание одной из частей: Австралийские аборигены не используют "эгоцентрические координаты" типа "слева", "справа", "спереди", "сзади" для описания позиций объектов. Вместо этого они всегда указывают стороны света: "юг", "север", "восток", "запад". В связи с этим они постоянно осознают текущее положение сторон света, это чувство начинает воспитываться в 2 года и окончательно формируется в 7-8.

(В солнечной Австралии, это, может быть, и не сложно. А вот завезти такого аборигена к нам, в пасмурную зиму, завязать глаза и покружить много раз. Потом развязать и спросить, а где север:)

Вторая статья "Ориентирование в каменных джунглях".
Вот ссылка на иллюстрированную версию http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/07/23/opinion/20100724_OPART.html
В городах можно ориентироваться по: доминирующим ветрам, церквям, солнцу и луне, спутниковым антеннам, поведению людей (по аналогии с "поведением птиц":), облакам.

Автоматический перевод этой страницы (для статей на nytimes.com не работает): ссылка.

Картографы каменного века

Не одни орочи обладают удивительной способностью ориентирования "с завязанными глазами". По свидетельству шведского полярного исследователя А. Норденшельда (1832-1854), чукчи прекрасно ориентируются даже в сплошном тумане, а исследователь Сибири академик А.Ф. Миддендорф (1815-1894) признал: умение ненцев ориентироваться "пристыдило меня со всеми моими сведениями и приборами".
...
Не всегда бывает достаточно естественных ориентиров; в дописьменный период в дополнение к ним использовались искусственные: кучи камней, воткнутые в землю наклонные шесты, зарубки на деревьях. Эти "дорожные знаки" содержали разную информацию - показывали направление пути, предупреждали об опасностях, сообщали, кто прошел ("личные клейма";). Это были своего рода письма дописьменного периода.
...
Многие путешественники сообщают о способностях туземцев быстро набросать на песке или на снегу с помощью палки или просто пальцем карту. Главными элементами таких карт являются гидросеть (вплоть до мелких ручьев), водоразделы, береговые линии моря и больших озер. Кроме того, показываются стойбища, озера, тропы, броды, заметные горные вершины и т. п. Расстояния измеряются днями пути.

http://geo.1september.ru/2001/35/6.htm

Подтверждаю: современные "аборигены" (ненцы, коми-зыряне, тофы) легко читают карты, сопоставляют их с местностью, даже если видят их в первый раз. Другой вопрос, что представление об "1 километре" у них бывает немного иное:))

Цитата сообщения от kciroohs отправленного 13 Янв, 2011 в 02:35

В городах можно ориентироваться по: доминирующим ветрам, церквям, солнцу и луне, спутниковым антеннам, поведению людей (по аналогии с "поведением птиц":), облакам.

Добавил бы:
-По запаху (предварительно нужно знать расположенность в городе крупных вонючих предприятий и направление ветра,
что-то похожее есть на картинке)
-По метро(там есть карта, иногда с правильной ориентацией север-юух :) к Минску применимо)
-По самолётам (теоритически, при хорошей видимости, зная расписание определённых рейсов)

Цитата сообщения от kciroohs отправленного 14 Янв, 2011 в 01:24

Подтверждаю: современные "аборигены" (ненцы, коми-зыряне, тофы) легко читают карты, сопоставляют их с местностью, даже если видят их в первый раз.

Несколько раз пытался у белорусских аборигенов что-то разузнать по карте - долго водят пальцем невпопад, а потом машут рукой куда-то вдаль.

- Слышь, мужик, а какая это деревня?
- Красное.
- Красное? (смотрит на карту)
- Ага. Раньше в старые времена называлось Грязное, а теперь Красное, с тех пор, как колхоз у нас.
- Если я правильно ориентируюсь, Долгов там? (показывает пальцем вперед)
- (смотрит в том направлении) Ориентируешься правильно, а Долгов там. (махает рукой назад)

"Приключения солдата Ивана Чонкина", фильм Иржи Менцеля по Войновичуvideo src="
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHZSMixQ9EI
"

Несколько раз пытался у белорусских аборигенов что-то разузнать по карте - долго водят пальцем невпопад, а потом машут рукой куда-то вдаль

Чем то не понравились наверно, или не у тех спрашивали

Выдалены карыстальнік

Белорусские аборигены сейчас дальше своего колхоза или дачного поселка не ходят.

Только карта, только компас и ЖПС спасут вас.